Transcribed by Ralph Sorge

The first part of Niraj's call that would have provided a backdrop to Mooji's answer ended up on the cutting room floor. So we begin with Mooji's first response.

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Mooji: Because in your way of looking, it is very clear that even the attention, which is our most potent instrument of perception, that now in the way that you've put it, the attention itself is exposed as merely another fiction; it cannot extend beyond the realm of consciousness, so therefore even attention is observed in consciousness itself. Attention is like the torch that is used to shine upon other objects in order for them to be perceived, but the torch itself is also perceived. I wonder if you are as excited about this as I am to say it.

Niraj: So this attention, just like everything that is perceived by it, is a manifestation of consciousness.

Mooji: Listen, I will repeat again because it's worth it, just for a second dose of pleasure. OK: whatever attention turns toward, we usually call this experience. So the light of attention turns towards an object, caresses this object and that is regarded as the experience. But in the way that you have put it, and I am so delighted with your observation and the way that you express it, because you have said from the outset that even attention is in the very realm of consciousness itself. Therefore, both the attention and what the attention perceives, or looks at, are both manifestations in the one consciousness itself. Therefore the attention itself is a phenomenon. We have hit the jackpot very quickly, directly? bulls-eye! But do you see it?  Did you see it?  'I', the most intimate of all concepts, the earliest point of knowing...

Niraj: I cannot say if I see it or not, I can say that there is, there is this space...

Mooji: By seeing, I mean has the understanding taken place out of what I've said?  I am not saying that you see it as an object.

Niraj: The Seeing...

Mooji: But the understanding itself, which itself is the seeing, you know, has that confirmed itself?  You see, even the "I" sense, that is the most intimate, because it is the earliest point of knowing, this is what I've gone to, that the sense 'I am', itself is the earliest knowledge or intuition, the most intimate, you see, because every other concept or perception rests upon the very perceiver itself, which is the sense "I am", which you take your self to be, the one who poses this question, the one who feels this dilemma. You see, even this "I", itself, is appearing in the realm or presence of this consciousness, so what can this consciousness be? It is already there, you are that, that within which even 'I', the most intimate, is itself observed as a phenomenon.  Just this is enough for you. You should close down your shop (of material thinking) and enter into this very minuscule contemplation?your whole universe is waiting to reveal itself through this question, you see. You are there, to watch even the subtlest thought or sensation, because nothing is more subtle than you, everything passes in front of you. In order for anything to be said to appear, or to exist, you have to be there first; everything must report to your presence; otherwise, without you?nothing is. If you are clear about this, then, this much is established: that which sees or perceives, however subtle, in whatever shape appearing, whether it is a feeling, or a thought, memory, or an image, none of these can appear without the seer of them. My question is: can the seer be seen? Is it phenomenal? Is it a phenomenon?  Can it be seen? This is a very exciting question.

Niraj: This is what I am looking at now, because, I realize that before I was always identifying with attention, and making the intention, or the choice, to turn this attention to consciousness, and now I see that this attention itself is a phenomena or movement that arises in the space of consciousness and yet I know this, so what is this, that is behind everything that knows even this?

Mooji: Yes. Who is asking the question now? This question could be your final question, though you don't need to say this. When this question has annihilated all the other questions, can this question survive having announced itself?  This question which reveals: 'everything else depends on me, because now, even the attention which has been my most potent instrument is seen, has now been exposed as a phenomenon.'  Okay? Therefore, I am the greater?greater than the attention, because I am aware of attention, or even the absence of attention, or the misuse of attention, you see.  So something is earlier, more subtle, more simple, more innocent and effortless than attention, so that which is there, must itself be earliest, subtlest. How can it know itself? It needs no toys, no instrument. Now, what is remaining, what remains of it? Here, answers, verbal answers, intellectual or mental answers, they have to be done with now, everything has taken you to the last step; after the last step is taken, the next step is where?  Do you follow? Where will your feet land, after the last step is taken? And this is not merely a mental question; here, only experience will do. We cannot speak about it.  There is nothing to describe now.  Everything that is describable is left behind. What I'm saying here may not be immediately attractive to most people who are listening. But for some it is. This could be your final question, you see. Something has thrown the whole mystery back upon itself. You are the witness of everything. What is called a problem, what is called a solution, what is called you or me or the world, or attention, all of these things, they are there in front of you upon this screen of consciousness. Who is the witness of this screen of consciousness, who is the witness of consciousness itself? I wonder if you're following me. I don't want the answer, because the answer, if you give one to me, I am going to throw it away. It's a fraud. Use the question; something must cook out of this question, you see? This is my response to you. For some people this is going to be the most exciting moment.

Niraj: Your continuous asking of this essential question has made me addicted to this inquiry in a way.

Mooji: Yes, yes, then you've missed it!  You've overshot the mark. Don't fall in love with the question?use the question.

Niraj: Now it seems that the concepts are leaving.

Mooji: Don't wait for the last one to go. You see, whether they go or stay has no importance for you,

Niraj: (Laughs heartily over Mooji's answer)

Mooji: They are unreal entirely.

Niraj: That is true, that is true.

Mooji: Who are you? This question must be asked: 'Who are you?'  And as I have said already, I don't want any answer. Why? Because no answer, verbally, mentally, or intellectually, is going to bring about any satisfaction. Even satisfaction we are not looking for. Something is left in its complete nakedness, in its total innocence, and it doesn't need any commentary about itself. It is transcendent to all perception, all quality; now it alone is there.  It is not a product of this introspection, it is only revealed through the introspection, you see, so that no more will you suffer from any distortion of perception. You will cease to suffer from the hypnosis of mind, or be influenced by any concepts. After this, there remains only silence, but there is nobody who will have attained silence, who must practice silence; there is no practicer or participant of silence.  Every thing is stripped away. Now, you as life is being lived, somehow it is going on spontaneously, moving along automatically, mechanically.  I don't know what the word is but it is simply like 'this'. It is easily misunderstood because somehow we are so fascinated with the idea of doer-ship that we feel completely lost without the thought of doing something. We have elevated activity, doer-ship, to a status of a virtue even. So something feels a bit frightened initially, but it is only an initial response. When the Self is uncovered in all its glory, in its beauty, the excellence of being, the innocence, the effortlessness of what is, then often, surprisingly, something shoots out from the dark?a doubt, a fear, "Yes, but where does that leave me?" Don't panic, for these are merely the final whiffs of smoke rising from a dying fire of ignorance. Don't worry about all these things. Don't worry about any of these things for you've surpassed the need for worry. Here, what is remaining is indescribable, inscrutable; it has no report to make. In its presence, all this universal activity is breathing, floating by like clouds in the empty sky. This will be your experience. If, after this, you continue asking questions, the very asking of questions is a subtle form of postponement or avoidance. You are?Be what you cannot help but be. I am Very happy to be here next to you in your own seeing. I hope you're like this.

Niraj: That's what I was needing to hear.

Mooji: Very good, Very good. Thank you for your call.

Niraj: Thank you so much, Mooji.